8-Way Advanced Survey Results

8-Way Advanced Survey Results Spaceland Lite 8-way 2013


We’d like to offer a Texas-sized THANK YOU to everyone who filled out the 8-way survey! We’ve all been hearing discussion about whether an advanced class is needed in 8-way for years, and this survey will get our collective thoughts in front of USPA for consideration at the next Board of Directors meeting. Thank you again for taking the time to voice your opinion, and here are the results (names withheld). We had 103 responses to the survey–did we say thanks? :)

Have you competed at the U.S. National Skydiving Championships?

  • Yes, in the last 5 years: 91.26%
  • Yes, but more than 5 years ago: 2.91%
  • No: 5.83%

Have you competed in the 8-way event at Nationals?

  • Yes: 85.44%
  • No: 14.56%

In what 8-way class(es) have you competed? (85 respondents)

  • Open: 61.18%
  • Intermediate: 77.65%

If an 8-way advanced class had been available, would your team(s) have competed in it instead of the class(es) in which you competed?

  • Yes: 54.12%
  • No: 30.59%
  • Not sure: 15.29%
  • Comments
  • We were not a trained 8way team. It was a pick up team and most of us only day 8way once a year. (At the US Nationals)
  • No for competing yes for player coach situation
  • We would have competed in the advanced class to no be baby killers in the intermediate class but still have a chance to win. In Open class we could never compete with the top teams.
  • Even with “just a pick up team” of experienced competitors we worry about being “baby killers” in Intermediate. In Open we fear being decimated by the trained professionals..
  • we were not professionals like the top teams
  • Typically a guest team, so no chance to medal anyways.
  • not in 2013 but after winning 8 way intermediate might remain together to compete in an advanced class in 2014.
  • This was our teams first year together and competing in 8way.
  • Not this year, but maybe next.
  • We were not even close to the professionals, but it would have been unfair to beat the intermediate types.
  • The skill level was higher then intermediate but not high enough to be competitive in Open.
  • We were a first year team this year and we won the Gold and now we are faced with the option of competing in OPEN with no hope of getting on the stand or passing on 8 way and focusing all our attention on 4-way. If you would have an advance class we would be there.
  • In 2010 Carlina Black Ice competed in Open 8 way because majority of the team had won the 8 way Intermediate in 2008. I think the team would have liked the idea of an advanced class like in the 4 way event. The team did not improve that much with the year off, and a couple new players and they were around the same point average. I was the coach for them in 2008 and a player coach in 2010. It seems like most 4way teams that win advanced end up moving into the Open Class and get stuck in no mans land like 7th -15th place. I think the same for most Intermediate 8 way teams that win, end up in the same place in the Open Class. I think people would be up for having an Advanced 8 way,
  • Our team had experienced members (1000’s of jumps) so we did not want to take away the opportunity of a young team winning intermediate, but we were not competitive in open like a professional (full time) 8-way team.
  • Advanced and open competitors on team
  • Would like the opportunity to pursue a medal without having to compete against professional, paid, skydivers
  • because we are not a fully practiced team but won gold in a previous nationals in intermediate
  • Monster won gold in Intermediate, so is barred from re-entering Intermediate, and frankly, Intermediate isn’t as fun.
  • I competed in Open class 8-way with Perris Moxie for 6 years. Every one of those years there were three teams in that class that were made up entirely of professional skydivers. Predictably, those teams won all of the available medals. We continued to compete in Open class because we wanted to do the entire dive pool, and we felt that the Intermediate class was intended for newer competitors. For us to compete with those teams would have been unfair to them. But even though we were among the best non-professional teams in the nation, we never got to compete for a medal. We had no hope of approaching the averages that the professionals were attaining, and we were never even in the running. It would have been nice to feel like at least once – just once! – we had a chance to bring something home with us.
  • Our team SPX8 could not compete in intermediate due to more than 4 members being from the winning team the previous year, however, we are a team of Non-professional skydivers and are not at the caliber of those who make a career at skydiving. There needs to be a class where those who have invested hours and hours of training, tunnel, coaching, etc have a chance are not up against people who earn their living at skydiving.
  • We had a few very experienced members on the team.
  • Chance to compete for medals among amateurs who train with the same time limitations.
  • We won gold in intermediate, but still averaged far lower per round than the open teams. Advanced 8 way would have been a good challenge without resigning ourselves to the bottom of the pack.
  • It’s an indirect “yes”, but at least twice in the last 5 years I have *not* competed in 8-way, because either: 1) the team would not have been eligible for 8-way intermediate due to previous gold medals in intermediate (or) 2) because the skill level of the team was too high to legitimately call ourselves “intermediate.”
  • If an advance category existed, we would have moved from winning intermediate to an advance category on which there may be a challenge
  • Yes, as long as it was similar as 4way, ie the full dive pool.
  • If there was an advanced 8-way division, my 8-way team which won a gold medal in intermediate and fourth place in british nationals open class would still be competing. I would LOVE to do 8-way but there does not exist a class presently that I feel comfortable competing in. I am too advanced for intermediate and not advanced enough for open.
  • Unpracticed pick up team of open class 4-way competitors
  • They felt the experience level was above intermediate after winning gold the previous year but no where near the ringers of the open class.
  • We are experienced enough in the full dive pool and with slot switchers, but our training and experience falls somewhere between rookie/pick up team and full time professional team.
  • no real reason to compete directly against the Pro teams.
  • Open is pretty much the pros.
  • We won Intermediate and felt that we should move up a class. We would rather have moved up a class to Advanced to stay in a competitive environment.
  • There needs to be an 8-way class that separates the professional teams from the trained weekend teams. At this time a trained weekend team can choose to either train all year while looking forward to no chance to medal or to be baby killers.
  • It is not needed. The move up rule is the problem.
  • There is only two options. You either compete in the lets call it entry level category or with the pro’s. There is no place for a team that is experienced but yet not full time. It would allow the new teams to have more fun competing and the more experienced teams a chance to medal instead of competing against the Knights or Airzona.
  • I think it would take a year or two for people to figure out what the par levels are with a new class…. Most 8 way teams are “throw together”, and ours had 2 members we never jumped with. That makes picking a class a little bit tricky when there are 3.
  • Can’t be certain, but maybe Dallas Rogue would have gone advanced in 2009,2010
  • Because our skill level was above that of intermediate but not nearly high enough to be competitive in open.
  • Not intermediate- don’t want to be baby killers. Not open – just can’t compete. Please give us a (similar to 4 way) sub-pro option.
  • Yes!! We have been around too long to compete in intermediate, but we are just a weekend team and there is zero opportunity for us in open. PLEASE CREATE A ADVANCED CLASS!!
  • For the last two years, my team has competed in the open class. Before that, we competed in intermediate and took home bronze amid some grumbling from true intermediate teams. We had one tunnel camp and 7 jumps together before Nationals (and several flyers who had never done 8way prior, which was why we went intermediate), but the caliber of flyers was really too high for intermediate. Therefore, we went to the bottom of the open pack for the next two years. We enjoy competing in 8way, but it sure would be nice to have a division where we fit–we’re neither babykillers nor ringers.
  • Because we had trained open but were completely obliterated on the scoreboard by true open long term professionally trained teams. I don’t believe everyone deserves a medal, but the year’s this has happened to me, their was a bigger-than-usual turn out for 8 way.
  • We have an 8-way team that is “technically” eligible for Intermediate but full of Open/Advanced and really good Intermediate 4-way competitors that have trained the full 8-way dive pool on a limited basis. Our 9-10 point average in Open would make our team an inappropriate entry in Intermediate, yet we are not even close to being competitive in the Open Class.
  • There is a HUGE gap between Intermediate and Open. Open is basically professionals, like the Golden Nights. Can’t compete in Intermediate having won gold there, and for fear of being viewed as a “baby killer” team.
  • Our team competed in the Open division these past two years, even though we only had 1 training weekend, but felt and knew it would not be fair to the intermediate teams who have been training all year to compete against them, knowing we had no chance for competition in the open class. We as competitors enjoy 8-way, and we enjoy the competition, and would love to have the competition experience that an 8-way Advance class would bring, just like the 4-way advance class brings.

Based on your Nationals experience, do you feel that 8-way teams have competed in the INTERMEDIATE class when they should have been in a HIGHER class?

  • Yes: 68.24%
  • I think so: 9.41%
  • Not sure: 8.24%
  • I don’t think so: 7.06%
  • No: 7.06%

Based on your Nationals experience, do you feel that 8-way teams have competed in the OPEN class when they should have been in a LOWER class?

  • Yes: 70.59%
  • I think so: 12.94%
  • Not sure: 8.24%
  • I don’t think so: 4.71%
  • No: 3.53%

Do you feel that having an 8-way advanced class would have resolved any “team miscategorization” you saw at Nationals?

  • Yes: 70.59%
  • No: 5.88%
  • Not sure: 14.12%
  • I didn’t see any problems: 9.41%
  • Comments
  • Very much so.
  • Evens out the playing field.
  • Most teams want the whole draw but some of those teams have a low average.
  • probably but it is always a grey area for some
  • 8 way teams winning in intermediate may continue to compete in future years in a class of their skill level.
  • Could have, not necessarily “would have”
  • Think this is a great idea that will encourage more teams to compete in the long run.
  • I can’t remember hearing of any issues and honestly haven’t given it any thought until now but I like the idea of an Advanced class
  • You either want to do the full dive pool or you don’t. If you do, go open, and you get the fun of slot-switchers. There were a total of only 20 teams in 8-way this year (not counting unranked guests). Does that really necessitate a third class? I don’t think so. Once you move to Open, it’s not about winning a medal. It’s about doing your best as a team. Regardless of whether or not you have a shiny thing around your neck, you still own the score you got, and if appropriate, you should be proud of it.
  • I think that having an 8-way Advanced class would reduce the occurrence of this, but some teams will sandbag anyway.
  • See comment above.
  • Given our history, our path to open was clear. We won gold in intermediate. Had the same team. So we went open.
  • Once an intermediate 8 way team works hard enough to win intermediate class, they essentially have no choice but to disband as it is almost impossible to compete at the GK, Airspeed and XP level as amateur skydivers. An advanced class would allow teams to stay together longer and continue to work on improving their skills.
  • I am overwhelmingly convinced that the current open/intermediate only format is reducing the involvement in 8-way, which is against the whole point of fostering competition. There are a number of very high quality “pick up” 8-way teams that often gobble up intermediate medal slots from teams that have worked hard to train and learn 8-way all year. There are also teams that either cannot or really should not compete in intermediate, but who get summarily slaughtered in open. Do not misunderstand: I think that it’s *fantastic* that we have 3 consistent exceptional teams in open (the Knights, Airspeed, XP) — but if you look at the scores in 8-way right now, there is a gigantic empty space in the area of an 8-12 point average. it’s a self feeding problem, because there are no legitimate competitions here people stay away from them… the talented but less serious teams don’t want to get slaughtered in open, but they also don’t want to be accused of being baby-killers in intermediate, so a lot of good 8-way teams break up after one successful year instead of training more and then moving into advanced. I’ve won an 8-way intermediate gold medal in 2 of the past 3 years, and would LOVE to help create an advanced class for 8way in any way I can. If someone would like to talk to me directly, please reach out to ljwobker@pobox.com and let me know if I can help.
  • I cant help but think that an advanced class would alleviate the ‘baby killers’ that are an annual staple in intermediate. And give an honest chance for an 8-way team to compete against teams that are not entirely filled with ‘professional’ skydivers like airspeed and the golden knights.
  • There are some very talented teams that could do very well in intermediate or not so well in open. I don’t think of it as necessarily a miscategorization but rather a dichotomous system that doesn’t allow teams that fall into skill level to properly compete against their peers.
  • an advanced class will not stop people from sand-bagging intermediate just for a medal.
  • Your real problem is in 4 way where world champs are in advanced. Create an advanced 8 way and you will see the same there
  • Adding an advanced class will always have its challenges but in the end it brings in more competitors, and that is the bottom line. I believe USPA should add the class.
  • I have seen teams in the intermediate class that is scoring way higher than any other team, they would better in the next class. I have been on teams that placed and never trained, we should have been in a higher class but we were no way capable of competing in the open class.
  • there were more than enough 8 way teams to allow for 3 classes. I think it is about time to add the advanced category.
  • If you look at the scores, the top of intermediate was right in line with the bottom of open, and the intermediate top 6 or so were within a point. I dont think that is the problem. I think the problem is in Open you don’t really have a chance unless you are a fully sponsored team. Difference in number 1 and number 5 was over 10 points in Open…and that was still a sponsored team (Turbo Ocho).
  • Open = pro, Advanced = serious weekend warriors Intermediate = cutting your competitive teeth.
  • No solution is perfect, but having a middle class would definitely help bridge the gap between entry-level 8way and pro.
  • There will always be “baby-killers” who just want another medal.
  • It doesn’t necessarily guarantee a solution to the problem, but it does create an opportunity for teams to do the right thing and compete against other “like” teams. It also will encourage more participation by keeping he baby killers out of intermediate and giving the winners of intermediate a place to go other than the Open Class slaughterhouse so they will be more likely to continue competing.
  • Maybe not 100% resolve all issues, because without rules and guidelines for forcing teams into classes (besides if you won a class), unfortunately I believe you will still have pickup teams out there who’s desire is that medal. But (with a big But), just like 4-way, when that team wins they will be forced into the Adv class, (where they can still be competitive), it gives the trained intermediate teams a fighting chance, with a reachable goal and a more consistent intermediate playing field.

Do you believe that a third (advanced) category should be added to the 8-way event at Nationals between open and intermediate?

  • Yes: 85.42%
  • No: 6.25%
  • Not sure: 8.33%
  • Comments
  • It would grow the Nationals just as the advanced class grew the number of teams in 4 way.
  • I believe intermediate/rookie class should not have any memory blocks. Advanced should be the open draw, for people with less experience than open but they aren’t beginners.
  • I am not sure if there enough teams to make three classes
  • Not sure if there is enough teams for it.
  • Fills a natural demand, same as when we parsed 4-way into three classes.
  • No more baby killers.
  • I think it may increase participation.
  • it would be fair
  • Not sure if there would be enough teams. 2013 had 25 total for both classes, but maybe if Advanced was available, then it might encourage more teams to enter.
  • Adding that class worked very elk for 4 way
  • It will prevent teams from having to make the difficult choice between competing in Open when they have no chance of medaling vs. potentially “beating up” on vastly less experienced teams in the Intermediate class. It would provide a “feeder system” for high-quality teams to compete under the same rules as Open without having to go up against sponsored teams with significantly greater financial resources and jump numbers.
  • Yes but still limit the dive pool
  • More categories entice more competitors which makes more dedicated training jumpers which promotes skydiving which helps everybody.
  • we won Gold this year in Intermediate and won’t be focusing on 8-way if we have to go into the OPEN class.
  • I like the idea of a third class. But I don’t know if there are enough teams for it. Most years it seams all the teams in intermediate belong there. My concern is that adding advanced would just thin out the Open class.
  • More likely experienced 4-way teams would combine to do 8-way.
  • See above. Not enough teams.
  • To get the “baby killers” out of the Intermediate category, firstly. Secondly, to give people who train their hearts out, spend a bunch of cash and time, the opportunity to medal and to not compete for 5th place. Make the Advanced class the top amateur class.
  • There is currently a big gap between the skill set for intermediate and open. For example, a team that wins gold in intermediate has no other option than to compete in open the next year. The open class is such a big jump from intermediate; I would love to see another option for all of us that aren’t on pro teams.
  • I believe that it would provide a better level of competion among non-professionals. Plus, I think you would attract more people to 8-way. I believe some do not compete because they don’t feel that competing against Airspeed and Golden Knights is logical for them.
  • I believe that more 8 way teams would stay together and compete again knowing that they wouldn’t have to be competing against the elite. I also believe that there would be more 8 way teams competing in general with a third class. It would also allow true intermediate teams to place better and have a chance at the podium.
  • I think it would mean more skilled skydivers would train 8 way.
  • There would be better differentiation among the teams, without discouraging participation. Having only two categories forces people to be either with ‘rookie/pickup’ teams, or be in the same category as the Golden Knights and other world champs. There is no option for in the middle.
  • There is such a wide variance in the class of performance among teams. It seems to make more sense for the competitiveness between teams.
  • See previous answers, but I believe the only way to encourage teams to work into that huge gap of 8-12 points would be to provide real competition there.
  • I would give more options for weekend teams.
  • 8-way is my favorite event, but I dont have a class to compete in. I already own a gold in intermediate, but know without a doubt that I would never ever ever ever ever place in open. 8-way advanced is so long overdue.
  • Not sure if there are enough teams doing 8-way to support a third category.
  • Help bridge that gap needed for those that enjoy winning a metal to reflect the training and financial investment they put forth.
  • We have the same system in 4 way, and it works very well.
  • im not sure there is enough interest in 8 way to have a third category. maybe if there were 30-40 8 way teams, a third category would be viable.
  • Motivating for non-professional competitors to have a chance at medaling without feeling like they are taking intermediate medals from less experienced competitors.
  • Reduce the “sand-bagging”
  • I believe that more 8 way teams will both form and stay together if the 8 way at nationals was more competitive.
  • I think there would be more fair to the teams that already won intermediate. Let’s face it, 8-way open will probably always go to airspeed or the golden knights and I think if there was an advanced, you might see more teams.
  • More competitors!
  • The only way it would work would be if we get more teams to compete. There were only 20 total non guest teams in 8 way this year. I’m not sure having 5-7 teams per division would be a good idea either…and where do you split Intermediate and Advanced?
  • It would be like 4 way. It gives teams the ability to compete on a more level playing field.
  • As a new competitor, I would like to compete amongst those of similar experience for a more meaningful competitive experience.
  • Such a class would shrink Open to only 2 or 3 teams. It wouldn’t change who is in Intermediate.
  • Enough teams already compete to support it. This will increase participation. More FAIR competition should be encouraged – and this is a way to do that.
  • See previous answer. For inbetween teams like mine there is no good place for us to compete. It would be so much more fun if we were actually competing! We don’t have a chance in open but we’re too experienced for int.
  • Advanced-level flyers who are not full-time/professionals do not currently “belong” in either the open or intermediate division. These flyers need a division to bridge the gap, same as in 4-way.
  • It would make competition more fun.
  • See previous comments
  • It would encourage more 8-Way participation at Nationals. Teams in the “gap” between Intermediate and Open are currently discouraged from participating.
  • From my past experience as both a 8-way pickup team competitor and a multi-year trained 8-way team competitor, I have found that once a team wins that intermediate division, the likely hood for that same team to continue onto the open class is not very likely and discouraged. My multi-year trained 8-way team won intermediate, upgraded team members, trained 300 jumps a year, and ultimately ended up splitting up to do other things that we could actually be competitive in (4-way advance). In my opinion, teams would stay together more after winning 8-way intermediate, more teams will form to train and compete in 8-way advance, and more pickup teams will form knowing they can still challenge there skills and have fun with competition in an 8-way advance class.

Do you believe that adding a third category to 8-way will make the event more fair to all competitors?

  • Yes: 84.38%
  • No: 10.42%
  • Not sure: 5.21%

Do you feel that adding an advanced category to 8-way would result in more teams competing?

  • Yes: 73.96%
  • No: 9.38%
  • Not sure: 16.67%

Would you be more likely to compete in 8-way in the future if there was an advanced class in addition to the open and intermediate classes?

  • Yes: 52.08%
  • Probably: 23.96%
  • I doubt it: 7.29%
  • No: 13.54%
  • I don’t plan to compete in 8-way regardless of the classes available: 3.13%

Please share any additional comments you have regarding a potential 8-way advanced class at the U.S. National Skydiving Championships.

  • The only possible downside to three categories is the possibility of too few teams.
  • Maybe add a handicap to teams whose jumps are funded by taxpayer dollars. It always bothered me the way the Air Force Academy dominated collegiates and the Knights dominated Nationals when my tax dollars were funding them.
  • I believe the scores from previous years 8way competitions have shown a breaking point both at the top end of int and bottom end of open. It would be better for competition if those teams who run away with intermediate and the teams who are barely able to register on the open scoreboards had a chance to compete with each other. Additionally I feel that the recent changes to the intermediate dive pool have watered down the difficulty to the point where it makes sense to have a class between int and open giving teams the opportunity to practice and compete with the more difficult points without needing to go against sponsored professional teams.
  • I would like to see guest teams eligible to compete for medals in advanced and intermediate categories. I think this would increase participation, and would not impact picking representatives for the world meet.
  • Team Vertigo 8 won gold in intermediate 8way in 2013. We would like to compete in 2014 but with just the two classes we have no chance of ever winning again without an advanced class
  • It makes sense seeing as how that’s already what’s going on in 4-way.
  • Ad it but the dive pool needs to be something between intermediate and open
  • I believe that there is enough interest in a third class to warrant having a third class.
  • I think I expressed it all already. IF there were more teams in 8-way, and there was a clear disparity, then I could see an argument for this. I don’t think that introducing a third class will attract more teams.
  • It’s time don’t you think? In 2006 Kurt Gaebel declared “8way is dead!” And see how wrong he was with that? This year he stumbled all over himself to get pictures and comments from both the Knights 8way teams.
  • While it’s hard to get an 8-way team together to train, say, harder than 4-way, I think adding an Advanced class would encourage more participation. It’s tough to beat GK, but with the advanced class, it would give more teams an opportunity to medal, thus providing more incentive to compete.
  • I believe that adding an advanced class will result in more 8-way teams competing at Nationals.
  • If USPA decides to do this, should br decided in the off-season so that jumpers can anticipate and plan training accordingly.
  • none – I think I covered it all in the other replies. 😉 —LJ Wobker, USPA 161616, D-28955
  • This is a no brainer. so many 8way teams medal out of intermediate or simply dont feel comfortable competing against novice 8way teams. my team would still be competing if there was an advanced division.
  • I also think that maybe more junior level teams will feel more inclined to compete in 8 way or try it if the competition in the intermediate class is at a more appropriate skill level.
  • Not enough teams on a regular basis. This year was an exception.
  • Nobody loses if the advanced class is added; just more paperwork and rules-making for USPA and the competition host. I say go for it!
  • The tricky thing is that you have the sponsored/trained teams who stay for 8 way…and many of those guys are top advanced/open 4 way teams. The other big group for 8 way are total throw together teams, or teams that didn’t train at all. So you leave things very polarized. Intermediate seems relatively even with a spread about like you would expect (closer than 4 way I think) with the bottom 4 scores being within half a point of 4.5, and the top 5 all within a half point of 7. That seems like a reasonable spread. The top of intermediate is still below the bottom of Open by a full point. To me that seems pretty appropriate so far. The problem is really in Open. The bell curve is very shifted to the right. The difference in 4th and 3rd is 3 points… the difference in 3rd and second similar. The other huge problem is most of those teams currently below the medal stand would , IMO, ALWAYS be open class. Rythm and the Knights I think would have too much pride to drop down. So who in Open drops down to Advanced? Maybe 1 or 2 teams? Who come up from Intermediate? That currently seems like a pretty competitive division (top 6 within about 1 point!). I think that would be a hard sell. If the top 3 intermediate were so far ahead of the competition as you have in Open…maybe, I don’t think it would happen as close as the comp is now. What you would need to make it work is MORE teams competing, and more specifically more teams who really dedicate and train for 8 way. You need teams that have skilled fliers who can spend time really training 8 way to really build that Advanced block. Where do they come from? Do you dissolve some intermediate/advanced 4 way teams for it? Do you take advanced/open 4 way teams split their training (4 way is what most people are there for…might be a hard sell to tell people to focus more on 8). Open class sucks in a lot of ways. For 4 way and 8 way… most of us pretty much know who will be on the medal stand before we ever get to Nationals. It is almost impossible to compete with Airspeed, XP, Knights, Rythm unless you are making the 800 jumps a year they are making and have that kind of talent on your team. It sucks…but I’m not sure adding a 3rd division would quickly fix things. Now… changing Intermediate to Advanced…just in name may draw out some of the competitors who wouldn’t compete in Intermediate. Not adding a 3rd division, but changing the names of the current 2.
  • Although I have not competed in 8-way yet & have no plans to do so next season, I have interest in doing so and know there is interest among others at my dz. Many cite the current design as a deterrent to competing since it doesn’t allow newer competitors the chance to be truly competitive and set attainable goals for advancement.
  • 8-way has been and probably will continue to be the more “recreational” event vs 4-way. An advanced class would serve only to kick out Army, Airspeed, and the occasional team of ex-army & ex-airspeed, thus making Open pretty lonely. And it will bump up everybody’s registration fee for the additional medals.
  • Please give those stuck between “could destroy intermediate” and “will get destroyed in open” a platform on which to compete – fairly, with integrity, and with the ability to come away from the event feeling satisfied (I.e. competed against peers).
  • Please do it!!!!!!
  • With the exception of the outlier of Turbo XP in 2012, there is almost no overlap in scores between open-class scores with switcher blocks, even at the bottom of the pack, and intermediate scores without those blocks in the last two years (1-2 teams overlapping per year). However, there is roughly a 16-point spread of average scores in Open in the last two years. This suggests to me that the open class has become the catch-all class for teams who do not consider themselves entry-level, and that there is real competition at the lower end of the open-class spectrum. Give the advanced flyers a division to call their own, and they’ll blow it out of the water. No one wants to be either babykillers or also-rans; it is a crappy choice to make. The middle ground encourages more training jumps, more competition, and more entry fees for USPA… win x 3.
  • It’s just the right thing to do.
  • Please read other responses, pretty much sums it up. looking forward to the competition.

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